Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

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willywill

Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by willywill »

I would like to hear what we think about the recent decisions and open the floor for deliberation about how we would have liked to see this handled and what the real issues are.

My thoughts:

I was utterly dissappointed by USADA's declaration of guilt based on circumstantial evidence, heresay, and Lance's decision not to persue the case to arbirtration. I never really believed Lance was not a doper, to me it was pretty obvious that he was. It is kind of like the excuse I used in college that just because I went to parties where people smoked pot, hung around with people who smoked pot, read articles about growing pot, and kept a giant water bong in my room, in no way meant that I was actually a pot smoker (former I might add, by choice, not because I think there is anything wrong with it), I mean come on, give me a freaking break bro.

The way the case was handled was atrocious, but so was Contador's case. It is curious to say the least that 50 picograms of clenbuterol can be detected in urine (that is 0.00000000005 grams) but it takes almost 2 years to issue punishment. Frank Schelck received proper treatment at this year's tour, you failed your out...how hard was that?

Another point I am considering is why ban drugs in the first place? Controlling drug use with laws has not been very successful (IMO) in society so why would it be more successuful in sports? The only logical reason I can think of is to pay respect to those atheltes who competed before the advent of many of these drugs. But that is somewhat illogical in itself too, we don't restrict technology as it applies to advancing business or academic interests. Perhaps we should all read by candle light so as to be fair to all Abe Lincoln contributed too...

If drugs can be administered safely and fairly and help athleltes perform better and reduce injury, why not do it? Avoiding danger seems obvious, as does education to the youth that just because a little is good doesn't mean a lot is better. Ibuprofen releives swelling, why is that not a performance enhancer but coritsone is?

Ultimately I know that politics dictates the answers to all the above questions and the decisions that are made, but I want to hear what you all think personally.

Though I would have loved Lance to be a clean racer, the good that he has done for cycling, cancer patients, and humanity as a whole FAR outweighs what Travis Tygart has contributed to society, and for that reason alone I will still side with Lance (despite the fact that if I ever met the guy I would probably think he was an egotistical douche bag! :lol: )

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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by vpc66 »

He will always be the winner to me. All they have is hearsay no real proof and even if he did,come on years down the road...give me a break. And if he was you can not tell me that others around him were clean...Skills help also. Who would they give it to anyway...have they check samples from all the guys that came in behind him. All the fuss over this has made a mess of the Road Bicycle world...it could end up taking fans away.
Relax and have deep water thoughts.

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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by neo_pop_71 »

It's 8:33 pm (PST)...

I will ponder this on my green happiness contraption (track bike)...

I'm heading east and that's all the planning I need...

(oh yeah, gotta have the iPod shuffle that's loaded with punk music!)

*** over & out ***

willywill

Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by willywill »

Damn Neo, 8:33pm and heading out for a ride! Good on ya mate!

I have been trying to convince the group I ride with (road) to keep the same schedule through the winter and just add lights! Not sure it will happen though...

Riding a double century this weekend for MS, will let you all know how it goes.

Rode the Blue Ridge Brutal in Ashe Co. NC a couple weeks ago, 101 miles, over 9,000 feet in climbing, two Cat. 3 climbs, and something like 14 Cat 5 climbs, in 5 hrs 20 min ~ 19 mph avg speed.

Hoping to improve on this time at my next mountain century the Bridge 2 Bridge Incredible Challenge, never done this one before but apparently the final climb up Grandfather Mountain is a beast!

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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by ctk »

Lance was a doper but so was everyone else. Doesnt stop him being an incredible sportsman.
Drugs in sport should not be legalised it would lead to some very unhealthy athletes and probably deaths.

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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by neo_pop_71 »

This months Bicycling Magazine covers this issue, it's written by a long-time Lance supported who now feels that there is no question that he doped. He brings up one god point to me, strip him of his Tour wins, and give the trophy to the second place finisher. The only problem is most of the runner ups are also caught and convicted dopers themselves. Now what? If he doped and the testing methods were not advanced enough for their time to catch him... which in over100+ test Lance came back clean everytime... I say let things stand. To strip him only opens the barrel of monkeys and when the most concrete evidence against him is "he said, she said", I feel it would simply be wrong. Asking the accused to prove his innocence is ass backwards and pathetic. He did prove his innocence everytime he passed the drug panel... clean. Done in my mind.

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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by vpc66 »

Even if they were not advanced enough back then as far as I know they still have blood samples...test again and I bet they get the same outcome..They just have wood to take his title away...
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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by Mark »

This is a great thread and I enjoyed reading each post. Lots of food for thought on this one.

I was never a big Lance Armstrong fan, but I did respect him and his training methods. Reminded me of watching Rocky IV, and you go back and forth watching the Russian (Ivan Drago) training with all the most high-tech equipment and then Rocky walking in waist deep snow with half a tree on his shoulders. :)

At the time, I simply thought Lance was utilizing every means available to him in order to become the best athlete he could be. Now that it appears as though he was doping, it doesn't really change that view. He's still a guy who used all means available to dominate his sport.

I don't agree with stripping him of medals, because I think the tarnished image is enough. I mean, we don't look at Jose Conseco and Mark McGuire the same way we regard Mickey Mantle and Babe Ruth, right? To me, that's punishment enough.

In the fitness world, there are competitions which everyone knows the athletes are doping, and then there are "clean" federations, where it's just mother nature and a good training regimen. I don't see why we can't have something similar going on in the sports world. For those who want to dope, fine. But you're going up against known dopers too. Good luck!

My 2 cents. ;)

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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by ctk »

I've just been looking at the Tour podium finishers.

If Lance is stripped of his titles Ullrich would have 4 wins! And I think Bjarne Riis has been stripped of his? Thats 5 for Ullrich. Ullrich also finished 2nd to Pantani... so 6! :lol:

Other people who have finished 2nd to Lance are Beloki, Kloden & Zulle.

http://www.bikeraceinfo.com/tdf/tdfindex.html

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Re: Lance vs USADA/UCI/FDA/etc. vs Cycling

Post by mixalive »

Thats just crazy. So here is my number. So call me maby..
93 A2R blue/white 14" Craigslist Austin, on the cheap
94 A2M silver/white 14" Cenna's Cycles SA, original owner
94 Cuda Comp purple/white 14" won on Ebay
95 XX Team gold/white 14" Craigslist Memphis

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